You are hereForums / Responsibility / Witholding Self Acknowledgement is a sickness cured by focus

Witholding Self Acknowledgement is a sickness cured by focus


7 replies [Last post]
RichardMiller's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 day 10 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 09/20/2009
Posts:

The root cause of emotion and suffering may be a story of tough times that you tell yourself.  It is verified, in part, by dismissing what works in life, and focusing only on what feels bad.  This may be your belief, that feeling good is the reward that you give yourself after solving all of your problems.  Of couse focusing on what doesn't work is a self fulfilling feedback loop. It ensures that you keep feeling bad.

Are any of us effective operating from that felt sense?

If you want to take a step to break that loop, comment below on what worked today.  Thanks

 

5
Your rating: None Average: 5 (1 vote)
n/a
Joyce T's picture
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 12/08/2013
Posts:
*
5

**

Joyce T's picture
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 12/08/2013
Posts:
journal my good

Hi Richard,

Thank you firstly for setting up this forum. I am happy to find a platform where there is an opportunity to speak from an honest place. I'm here for the second time and have listened to a couple of the videos and read some of the posts. I got the link through watching the video and meeting with Sailor Bob through youtube. And I have been exploring nonduality for a couple of years now.

I swing from this experience of good to bad. There are parts of my story that shows up that appears to be getting in the way of my good. But to be honest I'm not that sure that my seeing of what is good, is good. There are moments during the day when i feel good and there are moments when I feel, not so good.

The not so good times are usually when I'm preoccupied with: he said, i said, what i should have said... and so.

And the moments when I feel good are when I'm lost in my work or when I am connecting and communicating successfully with another.

So one would conclude that ideally, one needs to let the story go, drop it. But my question would be - is there an acknowledgment in being honest in your part in a bad story. So what I mean is the story could not have happened if you had not placed yourself in it... In my case it was allowing a partnership/lover into my life who repeatedly told me he was not in a relationship when the going got tough, and then would be gone, dissapear. This would leave me feeling pretty bad. After a little while he would reappear and the same thing would happen.

This also deals with the subject of boundaries. So here I'm left with my responsibility of not setting boundaries that would have recognised the situation and closed the door on the coming and going to happen. My seeing of good in this is to accept that it has taken time. The space given to this was necessary. And in that time i have been able to let go of that which I am not. "the angry victim" But trust me, this showed up in many guises - totally justified. And is still trying it's best to entice me into that identity. I'm silently, to self, thanking the other for coming to point me in the right direction. This I see as my good. But it doesn't feel like the same good as when I'm lost in painting or drawing or walking on the beach.

If I'm totally honest if feels vulnerable letting all these ideas of self drop away.

Does this make sense to you?

And have you had such experiences?

I reassure myself that it's all just perfect, because that is what is happening. Is this my good?

Thank you for your post.

With warmth,

Joyce

RichardMiller's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 day 10 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 09/20/2009
Posts:
LET'S MAKE LIFE FEEL GOOD?

We usually define that a life that would be to our liking would all feel good.  Could that ever be true, or would it even be beneficial?

A last ditch effort to make this true might be to jettison all of our stories, and live in a white fluffy fog.  Above you had said that “one would conclude that ideally one needs to let the story go.”  I don’t think that would be anyone’s conclusion without being exposed to a bunch of spiritual speak.

Why make this definition in the first place?  How about just looking into what makes good feel good, and what makes bad feel bad?

People appear, circumstances present themselves.  Part of that is that something happens, and part of it is that we interpret it. We do that according to those definitions that we made, like above. The definitions are our standards.  (There may also be a lot of agreement about them.)  What is the part that we have the most facility with?  It is in the interpretations, right?

You have expressed a situation where some guy was loving you. It was ongoing, so it must have had some satisfaction.  Then when the going gets rough he doesn’t choose to try to work it out.

Maybe that is a wisdom for him?  Don’t get into fighting, but give space.  (You’d think he could leave a letter or say good by?) At least that is how he does it.  Maybe he is afraid of what he might do or he has hurt someone in the past (physically).  I am not making excuses for him, just offering hypothetical other points of view.

First you blame him. That is not how a couple should be.  He says, we’re not a couple.  Then you blame yourself, I shouldn’t be setting up a revolving door. My boundaries are wrong.

Could be?

Both blaming him, and blaming yourself feel bad.  Then you say I thank him for showing me my abandonment issues.  Maybe that feels a little bit better than raw blame, but it is a stretch of the imagination.  The angry victim wants to keep coming back.  So those softening stories are not that effective.  Anyway they don’t feel good like painting does.

Then you say it is all just perfect because it is happening.  What is happening.

1) Something occurs, 2) you interpret it according to pre-set standards, 3) you feel good or bad out of that.

Let’s look into the pre-set standards.

  • I can say we’re a couple even when someone else says we’re not.
  • He chooses flight not fight (nor negotiation), that’s not how a couple does it. 
  • I should know better (drop story, not blame, see the good in a weird situation, accept what is happening), that is all a self blame, isn’t it?
  • I sit and wait, (how about going out on a date?)  Meet some men that don’t have an aversion to the couple.

First of all you’re not at fault for any of this. I say these things only to notice that you are working through a list of conventional wisdoms, that aren’t producing results.

What has happened is definitely water under the bridge, and it is totally useless to fight with it.  But why say that it was perfect?  Maybe it sucks.  I allow you the power to make your own judgements.  Saying it sucks feels bad, but it also allows you to take steps about the situation.

What are your options, when you take a clear headed look.  The two parts to this are take steps to clear your head, and then take a look.  Maybe you don’t even need steps. If you have a felt sense of a clear head, just go there now.  Actually go there often.

I am talking about options to meet and deal with this situation.  Not options to not feel it, (like I’ll just go paint).  And you can go paint too.  Just don’t get into avoidance habits, which you can do by always having some ongoing practical action steps for the resolution.  Life changes by our actions.

(Sorry I took so long to answer this.)

n/a
Joyce T's picture
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 12/08/2013
Posts:
Thank you Richard for taking time to answer this enquiry

Thank you Richard for taking time to answer this enquiry. I have read a couple of times. Of course the emotions here are always changing and my seeing of the relationship shifts with my wishing to connect with what is on offer. Although this is shifting... When I say that it is perfect what I am saying is THIS is perfect. So that which has happened, be it weird or wise is perfect by its sheer existence. It happened thereby it is perfect is what is meant here.

I do not see it has 'perfect' in that it has no defects... I see it has perfect because the defects offer me a seeing for 'me'. Or the illusionary identification with that which I relate to as me. So the letting go of the story is not meant to place any blame, this I am keen not to do, but to recognise the conditioning me that comes with me feeling abandoned/victim. The inner voice that comes with this idea has less potency as it did when it appeared, lets say, 6 months ago. It is not that I have a head in a fluffy cloud…. The cloud appears in all shapes and sizes. As a metaphor - It is that I see my role now maybe as an actor that is not so centre stage. Not because I should or should not, but because the suffering that goes with centre stage does not feel good. There have been experiences where I am nowhere to be seen…. this has shown me something very different, where blame does not exist at all. This is my most beautiful seeing.

Going out on dates is a good idea. It is more likely to happen when I feel I'm not doing it to replace the feelings that are still apparent. It is not in my interest to indulge in a relationship that fills the gap, so to speak, as I do not wish to be involved with another whilst there is confusion at play.

All that appears is surely an opportunity to just be and see what is on offer. It may stick, it may flow according to each persons need to be/see .... feel free.

It feels here like there is no purpose to playing out the abandoned victim... so I have begun to experiment with the gut feeling that comes with this. Then what is happening is that the identification as this just does not action itself... and what shows up is something different, without ownership....

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts in response to this.

Joyce T's picture
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 12/08/2013
Posts:
John O'Donohue

Wisdom is the art of being courageous and generous with the unknown.

RichardMiller's picture
User offline. Last seen 1 day 10 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 09/20/2009
Posts:
The power of our word

(Apologies for lateness in responding.  I have now turned my notifications back on.)

1. We look at life, we tell ourselves what is happening, and we have feelings about it.  What part of that sequence do we have control over?

  • We can try to get another to do what we want.
  • We can move ourselves to where we think we will be happier.
  • We can change our activities and our work.
  • Can we directly change our feelings? We can say I accept everything.  I don't think it works.

What else can we do when all that fails or is impractical? 

  • Can we tell ourselves what is happening in a different way?

I am innocently hinting at this, but actually I have found amazing power in this simple idea.  All the feelings change too! And with a lesser charge of anxiety, all of our actions are more effective.  Life Transforms.

2. So.  You write and tell me a circumstance, and mention the feelings that come and go around that happening.  How am I going to respond?  I am not going to deny it.  I am not going to agree with it. But I am going to rely on what I have said above, that if you build a softer story around that occurrence, much will change.

Then I am going to suggest a couple of examples of a softer story (that serve you in a greater way).  It is not because I am right and you are wrong.  But we can notice that some stories go around and around, and other stories finish and move on.

The stories that keep regenerating have little room for you to maneuver.  That keeps you as a victim with escape as your only relief.  Never really being resolved, the the powerless stories seem perpetual.

3. When finding alternative ways to see things it may be helpful to notice that some words have a dual meaning. So when using those words, you might find yourself oscillating between those two meanings.

“Perfect” might mean that such and so is existential, it exists, it really happened.  But it most often means without defects when compared to adopted standards.  When you say something is without defects, even when the defects are totally obvious, you are moving away from the power of language.

Or when you say “the illusionary identification with that which I relate to as me”?  They’re all made up aren’t they? So what part is not illusionary? (Anxiety finished.) We twist and turn to help digest a bum story that we are saying is perfect.

4. You say “recognize the conditioned me that comes with me feeling the abandoned/victim”.  Are you abandoned, or have you been set free? Two verbal points of view.   Feeling free is just a wider definition. No victim in the second one. The incident is complete, as fast as you can say alleluia. Ready for finding another date.  That freedom is what is existential.  It really exists.  All the rest????

5. My guess is that we are always an actor, and probably always on center stage.  If not personally in the lime light, then everything is still being judged by the benchmark of our feelings.  We are definitely the key figure.  What feels tight or what can feel better are the points of view that we express.  Most of this is just self talk.  Ownership is just in the meaning that we give to what we see.

n/a
Joyce T's picture
User offline. Last seen 27 weeks 5 hours ago. Offline
Joined: 12/08/2013
Posts:
soften the story :)

Awesome! :)

This is great Richard. I really like what is written here.

Most of all: "Or when you say “the illusionary identification with that which I relate to as me”? They’re all made up aren’t they? So what part is not illusionary? (Anxiety finished.) We twist and turn to help digest a bum story that we are saying is perfect."

Thank you for taking time here to listen to what was written.

Beautiful.