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Taking Questions March 1st to 15th


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Add your current questions here (as replies) for any further reading you have done on Living Realization.

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Richard Miller

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Teachers/enlightened people?

Scott,

I have a problem with the notion of spiritual teachers, as if there is a hierarchy of enlightened people out there and I am a lowly, unenlightened person. What do you have to say about this?

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Teachers/enlightened people?

What is happening when we see hierarchies, teachers, and enlightened people?

Hierarchies don't exist out there as real objects or levels. They are part of a conceptual overlay--mind, which just means thought. This is how the separate self sense stays in the sense of separateness. Thoughts appear about others who are better, richer, more knowledgeable, more enlightened or perhaps worse, poorer, less enlightened--depending on the perspective. When these thoughts are emphasized over simple present awareness, it seems as though there really are others and there really is a self that relates to the others. When the thoughts are seen as thoughts, coming and going in what you really are--awareness--they are no longer believed to be pointing to real objects, people, and hierarchies.

In a conventional sense, so-called "teachers" can provide pointers to help guide us. Without a teacher--in the conventional sense of the word--I would not have been exposed to pointers that helped see through the separation. So we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We don't want to emphasize the thought "there are no others" and therefore "there are no teachers" in some attempt to sound nondual, while we are really suffering in the belief that separation is real. That is not helpful. We've then turned nonduality into a belief system. Again, not helpful and not nonduality really at all. Too often, we jump to those statements as conclusions rather than looking where the words are actually pointing.

But what these pointers coming from "teachers" are ultimately showing is that the awareness that is the "teachers" real identity, prior to the thought-based conventional, ego self, is your identity also. Although it may be helpful to have a teacher who can guide us to this seeing, ultimately the investigation is ours to do.

I had to take the pointers of my teachers and look into my own experience. I had to see that part of my experience that had never moved or changed. I would rest there on a periodic basis. That was the practice I used. Yet one moment of seeing that you are this non-conceptual awareness may be enough. You see that, whatever you are, it does not move or change. Thoughts move and change, come and go within that awareness. And the thoughts are inseparable from awareness, which means they are also awareness.

Certainly thoughts like "I'm enlightened" or "I'm unenlightened" or "I'm a seeker" or "I'm a finder" can come through and be emphasized. Be easy on yourself. Just look again from pure awareness. If we mistake our identity for any of those thoughts, we are taking separation to be true and real. But in looking from and as this awareness that sees those thoughts, we know that we are not thought. We are not any thought, no matter how profound or mundane. Thoughts come and go within the awareness that is what we really are. This awareness is what sees each thought. In recognizing what we really are, the supposed hierarchy of teachers v. students, enlightened v. unenlightened is seen to be nothing more than a play of ideas. It isn't real.

Looking from and as your real identity as awareness resolves this issue fully and finally. It's an identity crisis, so to speak. There are no separate people. There are no hierarchies. In the absolute sense, we really can't even say that "we are all equal." Even that viewpoint comes and goes within awareness. It's a beautiful viewpoint. I like it very much. But nothing that we say captures awareness. Everything comes and goes. This is so freeing as we see that our identity can never be captured by a fleeting viewpoint. All viewpoints come and go inseparably within what we are. This allows us to play with dualistic ideas and it may seem, in a conventional sense, that we play certain roles perhaps, but through recognizing awareness, these ideas are no longer seen to be pointing to real objects "out there." In seeing through these viewpoints, seeing that they are transparent, temporary appearances that come and go within awareness, they no longer have the capacity to make us feel separate. We then have the sense that there is just casual, loving discussion happening here. No hierarchies. Just compassion, freedom, love, peace. It's very simple.

If there is someone out there that appears to be more enlightened than you, simply notice that the sentence, "X is more enlightened" comes and goes within an awareness that is prior to the viewpoint. This awareness is what you really are. In that seeing, you no longer suffer under the false belief that there is someone out there that is over or beyond you.

Much love

Scott

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Taking quetions..

Hi Scott!
Before I ask you a question about Living Realization I want to write some words about hierarchies.

Everything that appears in Cosmos is constructed through hierarchies. It evolves from lower to higher, which emerges from the lower including it and forming a new higher entity. So it travelled from atoms all the way up to the human brain and consciousness. This princip is also valid between individuals. My brain for intance, cannot deal with physics as well as Einstein`s brain did.

If we start denying hierarchies we are in trouble. We may say that we are all one and the same Consciousness, but some have realized it more than others.
Of course we should make a distinction between oppressing systems (e.g. cancer cells or Nazism) and hierarchies, i.e. higher developed entities which embrace and include the lower, taking care of it.
Also values are hierarchically developed in cultures and individuals. In our culture the higest values might be the consideration and respect for all the appearences in Cosmos in the same degree, yet recognizinng their hierarchical value.
I was happy to read about Shadow work in Living Realization.It reminded me about Gempo Roshi. He speaks very wisely precisely about hierarchies in the last issue of EnlightenNext Magazine.

My question is just about Shadow work. I think Shadow work is very vital for the process of spiritual growth and for a genuine transformaton. Personally I have very much left to struggle with and I am nor young anymore.
Do you believe it is possible to stabilize Presens Awarness
without having successfully lightened up my own shadows?

Thank you for all your kindness.
Love
Anna

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Hierarchies and Shadows

Hi Anna,

Thanks, yes. I didn't say deny hierarchies. I said see them as a product of thought. Test this out right now. As you sit in non-conceptual awareness, is there anyway of knowing that there is a hierarchy out there? No. This is the great discovery of nonduality and of postmodern philosophy, that what we perceive to be objects and things "out there" are really conceptual perceptions. We don't deny hierarchies any more than we deny peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Yet, without the thought "peanut butter and jelly sandwich," where is that object? Objects are conceptual perceptions. If we believe something exists outside of our conceptions of it, this is metaphysics. Genpo subscribes to Ken Wilber's view that hierarchies exist as structures of consciousness. This is what I am saying also. "Structures of consciousness" is what I mean when I saw "appearances within awareness." To say that there were hierarchies or atoms before thought came to label those as such, is metaphysics. Genpo, I think, would agree from what I know about his work.

If there is still a sense that there are things out there existing in and of themselves, apart from awareness, and apart from the conceptual apparatus (thought) that comes to label them, look into postmodern philosophy. Nondual realization resolves this issue nicely. But if there is any doubt left, postmodern philosophers destroyed completely the notion that we can know any "thing" outside of our thought of the "thing." They even revealed that sensory experience is not pregiven out there, that it too is conceptual. This is totally in line with nondual realization, meaning everything is inseparable from awareness. I'm not saying these things as "truths" to believe in, but rather as an invitation to take the pointers and really look to what is being said here. Discovery this for yourself. There is wonderful freedom in it.

As for shadows:

Yes it is possible to recognize awareness now because awareness is what is looking and present now. No time is needed to look from and as the awareness that has always been here. Many people get busy for years trying to purify, undo, see through things instead of sticking with a very basic looking which is to stand right now as that which is simply awake and aware. No matter what comes through that awareness--whether it is a thought, emotion, state, sensation, or experience--it is a temporary appearance only. When we don't move to manipulate anything that comes through, we see that this awareness is unmoving, and unchanging. It is ever present, like an open present space within which all movement inseparably appears and disappears. The space and the "things" that come and go within the space are "not two."

Shadow work is a very limited additional practice that applies only when you see an other "out there" that very much gets under your skin in a negative way or that you are idealizing in some way. I've seen the most fully "realized" individuals still shadow boxing and shadow hugging in this way, not seeing it. I've seen this in myself even upon recognizing awareness as the real and true Self. A simple process of re-owning the shadow reveals that there is no other out there to shadow box or shadow hug. It allows a more thorough recognition of awareness. It allows you to be in the world in a more undivided way. It is one thing to recognize nondual awareness. That recognition brings less than full freedom if you are still seeing others out there that seem threatening or bothersome or that you are overly idealizing.

The proof is in the pudding. If you recognized your real identity as awareness right now (which is possible right now of course), yet you were still fixated in some way with an other out there, wouldn't you still be operating in separation? Yes. This is how shadow work helps. Nothing stops you now from recognizing awareness, so I invite you to do that right now, without any notion that you need more time to do that. But as shadows pop up, the 3-2-1 process explained in Living Realization can be very helpful. It works really well with the recognition of awareness, in my view.

Much love

Scott

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Shadow work

Dear Scott

Thank you so much for your really thorough answer to my question about shadow work and realization.
I like your book, it is very practical and I`ll keep it as a useful handbook.
As for the question of hierarchies, I am not quite clear, but I leave it as it is for now. Maybe it will pop up in an other circumstance.

Love
Anna

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Living Realization

Hello Everyone,

We have one week of this forum left if anyone wants to comment or put forth a question about the Living Realization text. I will be in Chicago for a live talk next weekend. The dates are here on Richard's site.

I want to thank Richard for this fun opportunity. And thanks to everyone who participated and helped. Richard has been a wonderful voice and inspiration, bringing various messages about freedom across the internet.

If anyone is interested in following the Living Realization text and getting more involved, please visit www.living-realization.blogspot.com. As the text is updated, and it's constantly evolving, we post the most recent versions of the text there.

We also have regular live, teleconference meetings that are growing. The telephone number, access code, and dates and times of meetings are always listed on the right column of the site. You can also join the mailing list by emailing Z at livingrealization@hotmail.com.

I'm available for one on one chats. Email me for phone or skype chat at Scottkiloby@aol.com. I don't answer questions in email.

We also answer questions about the text. You can submit those to Livingrealization@hotmail.com. If we choose to answer it, the response goes up on the site.

The whole point of Living Realization is not to become dedicated to a group or teacher. It is all about the freedom available within you right now. There is simply no substitute for your discovery of awareness. No teacher or teaching can give that to you. There can only be guidance along the way. The discovery of it is the real treasure and the great news is that it is available right now.

Hope you join us. Remember that Living Realization is an organization dedicated to the recognition of awareness and the seeing that all appearances (without exception) are inseparable from awareness. This message has given many people wonderful freedom. We would love to have you join us on the mailing list and/or in meetings.

Much, much love and thanks to everyone

Scott Kiloby

Much love

Scott

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My website

One more thing, for those that don't know. My regular website is www.kiloby.com

Much love

Scott