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Mind, For Better or Worse Most of Us Seem to Have One


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Mind is not a thing. Yet we seem to intuitively “know” or “think’ we have one. Mind combined with language is the basis for “conceptual” understanding. “Mind” is a word, a concept, a label for a formless something that “we” have. And what “we” are, “I” am, in a manner of speaking, is a mind created sense of self. And via mind, “we”, “I”, try to make sense of the world, our existences, and our so-called true nature.

And mind activity, temporarily restricted for the moment to “thinking” versus “imaging,” or “imagining”, is known by “hearing” thoughts, even though they make no sound. Nevertheless, “you” can observe mind activity for yourself.

And what “hears” soundless thinking? Consciousness. Formless awareness. Another invisible “something” we take for granted and do not control. It simply is as we simply are.

But that isn’t enough for mind, as you may attest. Mind wants to “know.” Minds wants to “understand” what it is not capable of understanding – “reality.” And the fact that “mind” may be considered an “illusion” doesn’t change that dilemma and dynamic until something called “awakening from mind” happens.

A fundamental “fact” of our human condition is that everything in form is a manifestation of “absolute reality.” Including our “bodies”, our “embodied awareness”, our “embodied existence.” And also fundamental is the fact that “reality” doesn’t need to understand itself to Be. It simply Is. Only imaginary, illusory mind wants to “know” and “understand” how it is that we are, how it is that it is.

Consciousness without thinking mind’s narrative, commentary, is that which the term “non conceptual understanding” points to. I “think” everyone that visits this site has had a moment or moments of quiet mind, and then subsequently experienced mind activity to the tune of, “What just happened? What was that I just experienced?” And mind’s hunt to find the right words, the right vocabulary, to describe, to make it happen again, takes off racing to wisdom books, satsang, ashrams, retreats, the internet, the meditation cushion, practices and gurus. In short, we start where we are as we are or think we are.

But no matter where we go or what we do, there “I” am – the mind created sense of “me.” And so an important aspect of our human condition is figuring out our relationship towards mind. How does “illusory” mind relate to “illusory” me? How do “I” learn to live with mind? One can try to banish it by calling it illusory. One can extol it as the royal path to knowing and knowledge. One can denigrate mind. One can awaken from its influence. One can flat out ignore it. Or one can observe it, pay attention to it, hang out with it and come to see for oneself what it is and what it is not. And in this process one also may come to learn what one is and is not.

Along these lines of what is and is not, there is an optical illusion on the internet called the Spinning Lady Optical Illusion. By paying attention to certain elements of the image, you can “observe” her spinning clock-wise or counter clock-wise. When I looked at the Spinning Lady, she was spinning clockwise. But for the life of me, I couldn’t get her to spin the other way. And then I was able to. A little internal relaxation, a little releasing of physical tension, a little shift in perception and she, the image, was going the other way.

And I thought about that shift in perception. It didn’t require becoming more aware, more intelligent, more scholarly, more awake, or more knowledgeable. And I wondered if the shift in perception from conceptual understanding to non-conceptual isn’t just as “simple” and “uncomplicated.”

And then something else happened. I asked my wife to observe the Spinning Lady. And as we looked at the same image at the same time, I reported it spinning clockwise while she reported it spinning counter clockwise. I wasn’t struck so much by the fact that our neurobiological, neural circuitry was creating different images in our brains. What struck me was, ‘How often does this occur? That two or more individuals looking at the same thing see completely different things because of neural circuitry biases or conditioning.” And the answer that arose from within was, “Every minute of every day.”

So how do I live with this reminder - that my experience of quiet mind, inner stillness, formless awareness, non-separation very likely is not going to be like yours? I live with the caveat that all I am willing to say, despite the intensity of any realization I may experience, is This is how it seems, feels, looks like to “me”, not that THIS IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS.

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Tony

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By: MTony502

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Words, any word or concept,

Words, any word or concept, in itself is not “real”. Even when written on a piece of paper or carved in stone. “Words” in themselves are never real. These words here are not real. They are referents referring to something other than themselves. That “something other” may be tangible to touch (a chair) or intangible (consciousness). But words nevertheless are both energetic and informative.

In the “realm” of “absolute reality” everything is everything is energy is interchangeable. The Oneness. The Singularity. The soup and its ingredients – the singularity. The one coin and its two sides. As mind tries to work around these concepts it can get overheated and easily “over think” and frustration happens, arising out of apparent paradoxes and illogic, so that it screams out, “It doesn’t make sense!”

Well of course not, because it’s not about sense or nonsense, real or unreal, right or wrong, moral or immoral, awake or asleep, conscious or unconscious, happy or unhappy. It’s not Amati talking to Tony talking to Marcus talking to Andreas talking to Anna talking to Peter. It’s Self talking to Self talking to Self talking to Self talking to Self talking to Self. It’s formless awareness awakening to itself through this human form.

It’s all One conversation. Self talks to Self trying to understand Self, learning to live with itSelf. Or so it seems tome.

Regards

Tony

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By: MTony502

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realm of reality..........

dear tony,...

tony:These words here are not real.

response>> tony/amati either of them are least bothered if these words are real...or not....as such they give a damn what is real and what is not....?

"dear lad dont go there its is slippery...dont go...you may fall and hurt yourself.....

when tony is saying this to a child....is he considering if words are real or not and then saying it? than why is he doing it now?

tony>>>>It’s all One conversation. Self talks to Self trying to understand Self, learning to live with itSelf. Or so it seems tome.

amati>>> and why is it still seeeeeeeeemmmmmmmming to you....? after all these years....? its not because "I dont KNOW" or formless reality is your /mine original nature..etc etc ....

I/WE/YOU /SHE...as such.......dont care a bit what we are ...what is..what we are not...what is not......if we are..if we are not....WE AS SUCH DONT CARE///

dear tony, SIr.....
regards
amati

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Doubt is an interesting

Doubt is an interesting appearance. Now that someone mentioned it.

If fed a clarification, doubt tends to last, as an appearance in time and space, longer.

For clarifications are what doubts hunger for.

On the other hand, and when you don't feed doubt but simply let it appear, it tends to dis-appear on its own.

An interesting appearance indeed.

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IA ( identifying an appearance)

dear peter,

Identifying an Appearance (IA )is an interesting appearance. Now that someone mentioned it.

If fed a lack of faith, IA tends to last, as an appearance in time and space, longer.

For security is what IAs hunger for.

On the other hand, and when you don't feed IA but simply let it appear, it tends to dis-appear on its own.

An interesting appearance indeed.

regards
amati..nay..yours jelly bean

dear peter I look at your photo and it is amazing that at such a tender age you are so wise...

and what about your visit to the dentist..is it scheduled?

and what about my pizza?

bye

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Faith is an interesting

Faith is an interesting component... since you mentioned it, amati.

It is a certain quality or type of attention.

A type of attention which attests that something is real, whether you think that you see evidence of it or not.

We exercise faith constantly.

Every time that you sit on a chair, you have faith that it will hold you up.

Similarly, most people have faith in waking up the next morning each time that they go to sleep the night before.

It's a form of attention that we practice routinely and almost unconsciously.

You raise an interesting subject there, amati.

Faith... a form of attention that makes an appearance seem real to us.

:)

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"This is how it seems, feels,

"This is how it seems, feels, looks like to “me”, not that THIS IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS."

Spoken like a true appearance, Tony.

Commenting on anything and everything else, which are just an appearances as well.

Thanks for that.

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caveat

dear Sir,

regards and wishes

mtony502>>>"I live with the caveat that all I am willing to say, despite the intensity of any realization I may experience, is This is how it seems, feels, looks like to “me”, not that THIS IS HOW IT ACTUALLY IS.

response/ doubt>>> such "openness" in these lines are a treat to share and learn

However ...Kindly clarify my doubts..

1. how are these lines different to the known -unknown ... I am the known---- the reality is the unknown view? is it not again going back to the illusion -reality trap?

2. While ...say, playing with a son/grandson ....buying him some ice cream/candy so on so forth do you still think that it is not actuality.....

OR .... are you "bothered" what it is feeling like to you...the intensity of it ( now my hand is going into the pocket to buy the candy for the little one.....the intensity now at this stage is this....now the brat is licking it..now the intensity is this...etc etc...?)

me dont think either would have been a concern....

and may be ....just maybe....... tis true for every one...every minute..of..every day

reagrds sir

amati

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Illusory Mind is the Story of Mind

At a minimum there is physical reality and there is mind’s commentary about that physical reality, mind’s story or narrative about it. And because mind is the major filter through which we initially view and think about the world, about ourselves and our relation to it and one another, mind is in high demand as it were, working overtime. And mind uses language and thoughts and theories and stories to explain what is going on at any moment. Mind essentially has an opinion about anything and everything it can imagine, including the nature and scope and texture and posture and tone and look and smell of enlightenment.

And Doubt is just another way of saying "I" don't know. Or rather “mind" doesn’t know what “story” or “narrative” or “commentary” to tell itself about whatever is on its mind. Sometimes mind acts as if it has a mind of its own.

And then there is “non-conceptual” understanding and knowing, without “story”, without “commentary”, without “narrative.” This happens when mind quiets, when mind is still. And in stillness it is seen that the “illusory” world is the “narrative” world we collectively participate and contribute to every day in daily conversations with one another and the self talk that goes on in our heads.

There is what is and there is our “narrative” of what is. There is consciousness and there are the contents of consciousness: thoughts, emotions, bodily sensations, and of course stories, personal and collective histories, personal and collective experiences.

In this manifestation, awareness awakens to its formless nature through this physical body. And in the process consciousness informs and transforms mind, non-conceptually. There may be a sort of bi-furcated awareness or split-screen awareness that presents on the one side “what is” and on the other side “mind’s story of what is.” And this can be a little or a lot disquieting because it is seen that there are a ton of discrepancies, as mind exerts strenuous contortionist effort to find “meaning” in “how it actually is.”

When mind quiets, however that happens, spontaneously or as a result of a practice, it is seen that the world doesn’t disappear. And when the inner commentary starts up again, one can tell when one is grounded in presence and when one is not. When grounded in presence there are no problems because it is how it is, and there is no “story” we are invested in to sustain or maintain the “problem”. When not grounded in presence, that is easily seen. Then “I” has “doubts” or “resentment” or a “disagreement” or “is resisting” because how it is in the moment is not jibing with how mind thinks it should be. And temporarily “I” get caught up in “problems” and “solutions”, “remedies” or “work outs” – mind’s little revisions and edits to its grand opus “The Ever Fascinating Story of Me.”

But ultimately, the trick isn’t so much in getting the carrot, but in learning what to do with it, if anything, after one has it in hand. How does one live as a conscious human being? And that’s not really a question posed to mind.

Tony

YouTube Channel: Ordinary Consciousness
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Life is not a matter of cause and effect.

Tony: When mind quiets, however that happens, spontaneously or as a result of a practice, it is seen that the world doesn’t disappear

Response: The mind is sound and will always be present as long as man is alive, even in the enlightened. Practice is illusory and there are no results of any actions for life is without cause and effect.

Tony: How does one live as a conscious human being? And that’s not really a question posed to mind.

Response: What is a human being? Understand and "how" will not appear real to you. Of course the question above is posed by the mind and the mind will answer it as long as it is not understood that there is no "how?" in life but only in the mind.

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Marcus Stegmaier

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mind

Hello mtony502…

Dear sir,

Mtony>>>At a minimum there is physical reality

Response>>> and the maximum….?

Mtony>>>and there is mind’s commentary about that physical reality, mind’s story or narrative about it. And because mind is the major filter through which we initially view and think about the world, about ourselves and our relation to it and one another, mind is in high demand as it were, working overtime. And mind uses language and thoughts and theories and stories to explain what is going on at any moment. Mind essentially has an opinion about anything and everything it can imagine, including the nature and scope and texture and posture and tone and look and smell of enlightenment.

Response>> so use it.

Mtony>>>>And Doubt is just another way of saying "I" don't know.

Response>>> doubt is just another way of saying “I” notice that “I” don’t know.

Mtony>>> Sometimes mind acts as if it has a mind of its own.

Response>>……….. and heroes are born...the butter fly tears open its cocoon...

Mtony>> And in stillness it is seen that the “illusory” world is the “narrative” world we collectively participate and contribute to every day in daily conversations with one another and the self talk that goes on in our heads.

Response>> then it is not stillness.

Mtony502>>> How does one live as a conscious human being?

Response>>> by giving up such questioning.

Mtony502>> And that’s not really a question posed to mind.

Response>> then you will never get the answer.

Regards
amati

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Thoughts could not be given up or used.

AMATI: Mtony502>>> How does one live as a conscious human being? Amati>>> by giving up such questioning.

RESPONSE: Nothing could be given up for nothing is real and the ego which wants to give it up is also false.

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giving up

are dear gurujiii.

marcus>>Nothing could be given up for nothing is real and the ego which wants to give it up is also false.

amati>> there is nothing you/me/we cannot do if the necessity arises.and the way found......for WE ARE LIFE ....

>>>>
I do not care what is and what is not...I dont care...how is and how is not...I dont care where is and where is not......(((( THIS IS HOW/WHAT/WHERE.. I...YOU...WE...ARE)))

THus the giving up takes place....
<<<<

marcus>>the ego which wants to give it up is also false.

response>> WE do not care what is false and real....that we are.....
regards
amati

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Ripples on the surface of mind

“Questions”, any “questions” are posed by mind. And mind will always instinctually try to “answer”. But in reality there are no questions or answers. There simply is what is. But that’s an “answer” mind can only understand intellectually. Yet that’s nothing to deride. After all awakening in form begins somewhere and nowhere with whatever is available.

“How does one live as a conscious human being? And that’s not really a question posed to mind.”

“then you will never get the answer.” Very much the point. Seeing through a question many times is more eye opening then conjuring up an answer.

“When mind quiets, however that happens, spontaneously or as a result of a practice, it is seen that the world doesn’t disappear.”

“The mind is sound and will always be present as long as man is alive, even in the enlightened. Practice is illusory and there are no results of any actions for life is without cause and effect.” As you know, Life is not static. Everywhere there is everchangingness. Impermanence. And since “I” am life, whoever and whatever ‘I” am is everchanging and impermanent. So in form I am “being” and “doing”. And while there may be no “cause and effect” there is energy and information exchange happening all the time – as in these postings and replies – and it is seen that the boundaries of apparent separation are quite porous. And whether energy exchanges are energizing or de-energizing, encouraging or discouraging, instructive or destructive, mindful or illusory, “it is how it is” in the eye of the beholder.

“At a minimum there is physical reality”

“and the maximum….?” The minimum is the bare stage where collective attention pools and gathers seeking the sating of needs; the maximum is whatever maximizes in presence in form and formlessness, shattering assumptions by the dozen in the process.

But these are simply ripples on the surface of mind, take no heed.

Tony

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By: MTony502

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taking no heed..

hello mtony ..sir,
wishes

tony>> But in reality there are no questions or answers.

response>> reality is albeit a question ..when you say reality...... you are questioning.

tony>> There simply is what is. But that’s an “answer” mind can only understand intellectually. Yet that’s nothing to deride. After all awakening in form begins somewhere and nowhere with whatever is available.

response>> intellect - mind- me- life- all resolve at one "place". thus there is no more any bothering if "it" is only intellectual...or not ..etc..

as that place and intellect are one
and intellect and that place are one.

as mind and that place are one
as that place and mind are one..

in that place man-ego-illusion-reality-life-I........
are...... not two

I/LIFE?/Ego?/notself/coonsciousness/happenning/energy?........ do not care where/what/how I am -- thats where/what/how I am...thats the place....

tony>>“then you will never get the answer.” Very much the point. Seeing through a question many times is more eye opening then conjuring up an answer.

response>> seeing through the questioning is an answer

dear tony I am sure you are able to see the direction I am pressing ( you have already resolved it by saying there is nothing to deride (at the begenning)...how ever I feel you are reveting back by saying ..conjuring up an answer)

tony>>“and the maximum….?” The minimum is the bare stage where collective attention pools and gathers seeking the sating of needs; the maximum is whatever maximizes in presence in form and formlessness, shattering assumptions by the dozen in the process.

response>> you are using the word "collective" as you find this "minimum" to be irrefutable.

the seeking thus starts from the irrefutable and is sudden break ..by....calling of mind and man to be an illusion.....

dear tony my (cry) if you allow me to say so is this:

there can neither be any doubt.....nor certainity...

the first phrase is easliy reached. ahhhhh these are only but ripples..."me" is superfecial...thought is not substantial....mind is an illusion etc so on and so forth.

and then man struggles for certainity.becuse man than cannot find this certainity outside of what he has just labelled an illusion... he than tries for certainity in calling this an illusion...

dear tony...this is not respite for man...its almost like an evil curse.....

only when he (realises??gives up..? )he as such doesnt care a bit,doesnt give it a damn.... what he is then he comes to this place...

I AM LIFE...there is neither doubt nor certainity.

now sir, thus i feel this" I" is resolved.

that was why I was trying to...you know....
that was all...

reagrds
amati