EFT as a support if you're into non-duality
Hey friend,
I found it highly useful to use EFT as a support. In this message I'm assuming that you're also into non-duality. I'm writing this from my own experience. Please feel free to give feedback.
ps: I'm not claiming any truth or authority. Just for fun ;-)
Michiel
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In the recognition of awareness most of us soften and open up. In opening up the system often also starts emptying old baggage. Old memories, emotions, pains, etc come floating to the surface of the awareness. In this opening emotions evaporate by themselves. But if an emotion triggers a fight/flight/freeze reaction that makes it very hard to notice what's going on in the body. The body cramps so that the pain doesn't have to be experienced. When such an emotion isn't actually experienced (it's pushed away by the cramp) it tends to stick around longer. To break this cycle EFT might be useful. It supports the body in releasing and digesting the emotions.
When applying EFT
- Use the recipe from the manual. It can be found on www.emofree.com (or send me an e-mail)
- As mentioned in the manual: if you are emotionally fragile/unstable, don't use this process, seek professional help instead.
- The processing of emotions comes and goes. Awareness stays.
- Don't dwell on anything mentally or emotionally. Instead, make a list of things you want to work on. If anything comes to mind, add it to the list.
- Set apart some time to work on the things of your list one by one. You can do this every day or a few times a week/month
- Instead of "I deeply and completely accept myself" (from the manual) you can alternatively say "in truth everything is accepted". Whatever you're most comfortable with. Although it seems like the best strategy is to go into the illusion on purpose. That's right, go wild: say I'm mad, sad, I accept and love myself etc. Then break it down using EFT.
- Don't get stuck in non-dual concepts. This process is just like taking a shower in the morning. Non-duality isn't about concepts anyway. Don't let concepts get in the way of taking care of yourself.
- It's not a discipline. It's natural to release emotions. You'll find yourself going back to doing EFT, if not don't do it.
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Hey,
First of all welcome to the forum! You're from Spain, right? It's fun to see there are people here from all over the world! I read you're into non-duality video's, youtube is a nice way to get introduced to different kind of pointings.
It's true that EFT, like many things I had benefit from, has little or no scientific basis. It's also true that a lot of people that tried to get relief using conventional and scientifically based ways, got more benefit from EFT.
I can't really judge your situation though. When I started EFT I read the manual but I didn't understand everything yet. I browsed the web and found some EFT practitioners in my country. I just picked up the phone and called a few of them for some information. One lady was kind enough to talk to me for 30 minutes and address some questions I had.
If you want to find an EFT practitioner in Spain go to this website: http://www.eftmx.com
I can't tell whether it will work for you, you'll have to find that out for yourself! Some people that do EFT are really sincere, like you mentioned, others are not, you'll have to make that distinction.
Hi Michael
Yes im spanish, i suppose there arent too many here. Yes the last 2 months i have been watching no-duality in youtube (concioustv, nevernothere...)is quite interesting. I started reading and watching Krishnamurti (very recommended of course) two years ago (more or less) so in a way i knew something about non-duality. Ah i also started to "follow" Burt Harding Satsangs one year ago
The point with EFT was to excahnge ideas you know, i rejected it about 3 years but now i see it in non-duality matters so it makes me think about it again. Does it has anything truth apart from the autosuggestion?. The point is that the EFT video presentation promises you heaven (and at that time i was suffering and lost) so is like playing with peoples hopes. As i told you I have tried it without any posive effect.
I dont see nothing serious in it... if it works for other people perfect but this evening i have been reading
the manual again and is like a joke. I have been reading the part of The science behing EFT and there is really no science, NOTHING. You said that you didnt understand everything yet and i think that there is nothing to understand because there has no basis. The says statementes like:
"The true cause of negative emotions, it turns out, is not where everyone thinks it is.Is not where psychologisy have been looking...The have been looking in the wrong way. The cause of all negative emotions is involved with the bodys energy system"
He dares to defy all the psycology (Freud,Jung, Fromm, etc...) and not only that, he does it with no basis.
For EFT, the mind has nothing to do with emotional suffering. The Discovered Statement (as they called) is
"The cause of all negative emotions is a disruption in the bodys enrgy system"
so the mind, the thoughts, the identifications have nothing to do. It defies many of what is said by the spiritual teachers like Buda, Krishnamurti and others. EFT says nothing about the feeling of separation, the duality, as a cause of emotional suffering.
Im now involved in non-duality because i want to find what is truth and i think is good to reject everything which is false. I dont mean EFT is false, and i would be the first interested in that great discovery, but i think one must study the seriousness of things and notice about the possible false hopes.
Thanks Michael!
(may be there are some english mistakes...is becuase i dont speak the language very well yet)
Hey Jorge, (did I get your name right)
From the language you write in I can see you don't feel comfortable with the EFT concept. Why not relax for a moment and read this: I'll write something about my own journey.
I got into non-duality 6 years ago because I started talking about it with a friend, and he also gave me some books. One was by Eckhart Tolle, one by Ram Tzu, one by another non-dual writer and one by Osho. I really liked the books, it was like I was stuffing my mouth with candy. Except for the book by Osho, I didn't really understand that one. Then did a google search for Osho, and I found out about the scandals. (Rolls Royces etc.) I really rejected Osho and his books, and I talked very negative about him, almost like he scared me. My friend just said don't read any of him, and I didn't anymore. Then, a few years later I picked up an Osho book again and I liked it, no problem at all.
So the point is: Osho for me = EFT for you
yes, i dont feel confortable about EFT and as i told you i have clear reasons. But is not only for me is because false things are not good for anyone. I dont like that other people belive in false promises
anyway...that was what i see
Hey Jorge,
Let's go back to my original post for a moment, where I wrote: "I'm not claiming any truth or authority. Just for fun"
If you read this website closely you will see that it is not about 'right' and 'false'. There's a lot of people in the world already blaming each other for being wrong. Non-duality just means that right and false are not absolutes. We can still have a concept of Hitler, and a concept of Mother Theresa. Their so-called 'right' and 'false'-ness exist as a concept of right and false. Non-duality means that Hitler and Mother Theresa never exist seperately. In other words, to have 'false', you also need 'right', and vica verse.
Thought will try to judge the world, to cut it in pieces and put them in a 'right' and a 'false' compartment. Why? Because that is what thought knows, and the known feels safe.
If my child asks me: "Should I go with the stranger into the forest, daddy? He has promised me some sweets." What would I say? Would a man of understanding say: "Danger is illusory, it depends on how you look at it"?
If someone asks me: Why should I go to Dr. Shankar as a Guru and not to some other teacher? I will say: "It is not your choice what happens. But Dr. Shankar will tell you why the world is illusory and this will probably show you freedom, and the other teacher will most probably hold you in bondage because he will not explain the illusion of doership to you but give you some techniques. Whatever you happen to choose will be fine for me, because life is always right, but I would be happy if you could also see the value of Dr. Shankar's approach to life."
And the other will ask: "Why shouldn't I go to person x?" And let's say this person x is a teacher who claims to be enlightened and from my point of view is somehow confusing, I will say: "I would not recommend you to go to him for such and such a reason..."
And maybe Life makes you choose EFT to come to the understanding that it is just illusory. Everything is necessary to make you understand that it is not necessary. So nothing wrong with it. And I would never expect the other to follow my advice, for advices are illusory.
JUST BE AWARE: DANGER IS RELATIVE, BUT IS IT NONEXISTENT?
What I want to say is: A man of understanding will take care of others without fear of danger. The danger may be relative or illusory, but he will nevertheless care about others and this is how life takes care of itself. The point is to notice that it is not the ego who does it. And this also applies to the recommendation of a guru or a teacher.
The teacher is taken for an authority how to live "my life", the Guru is manifested by Life to convey the understanding of mind i.e. "my life", that it is illusory. The Guru will not teach you anything, because in the mind everything happens by itself as an illusion of sound and in Life nothing happens, because life is pure Light manifesting itself as an illusion of light and sound. As long as words are not just sounds to the ego but real, it is more valuable to listen to the Guru. After an understanding has happened that all words, meanings and concepts are just an illusionary manifestation of sound projected by Life and not by the mind, everything is fine as it is - the ego has sophistated itself spontaneously and uncontrollably into the witness. And this state is not a weak or powerless state. It is a naturally powerful and compassionate state: Read also "The Power of Understanding" on NNH, forum Non-duality
Non-duality is not about saying "Everything is of equal value because it is relative." It is about understanding the illusoriness of all values and then watch Life taking care of itself without concepts.
So again: I would like to recommend you Dr. Shankar. However he is not the only "true Guru", there are many. But there are much more spiritual teachers who has been manifested by life to maintain the illusory world as real.
To discriminate the teacher from the real Guru is essential and this will happen or not happen to you, whether you like it or not. To Jorge it is happening. So to me your doubts are very welcome, Jorge!
Hey guys,
I love this lively discussion.
Marcus, you wrote To discriminate the teacher from the real Guru is essential and this will happen or not happen to you, whether you like it or not. To Jorge it is happening. So to me your doubts are very welcome, Jorge!
Marcus, what do you mean by this? You say Jorge is discriminating the teacher from the real guru; then who is his teacher and his real guru? Who are the teachers and guru's Marcus?!
About the analogy with the child: I agree that distinction is good; please don't go with the stranger in the forest ;-) From a bigger perspective any bad stranger isn't absolutely good or bad though. Good and bad are not separate, like ying and yang from the chinese. That's what I meant in my last post.
Let's get back to my original post where I wrote "I'm not claiming any truth or authority. Just for fun ;-)" To go with the analogy of the child, I believe that if you worry too much about a child the chances of an accident increase considerably! By the same token, if you worry too much about being a non-dualist, it will work in your disadvantage. So why not lower our red alert a little, maybe to orange or even green. It might allow for some playfulness and good old fun ;-)
To convey the message of non-duality is playfulness, but it is very serious, too. For humanity should not be mislead.
Michiel: “You say Jorge is discriminating the teacher from the real guru.“
It was written that it is happening to Jorge and not that Jorge does it. The real Guru is Life showing that Jorge, the ego, is an illusion. And every ego is a teacher or a student for the ego believes to be the doer.
Teachers give the illusory ego something to do and call this technique the cause of a “healing-process“ for example. The Guru is the one who shows that the world is illusory and not a matter of cause and effect.
Jorge came to the understanding that no technique will free him from any disliked feelings and emotions for they are not real in the first place. How could you ged rid of something which is not real? Feelings and emotions come and go whether you like it or not. To believe that the body needs to be healed to overcome some emotion-patterns, strengthen the believe that the emotions are real.
It is not wrong to believe in healing techniques but it is false. Believes are not true, whereas nobody is to be blamed about his believes for Life puts them into man and Life frees man from them spontaneously, unpredictably and uncontrollably.
Emotions appear to be felt in the body but are in fact perceived as thoughts in the mind, however, man is not aware of that. And it is the ego‘s belief to be the doer and that the world were real which is the root cause of any emotion and feeling in the first place. Every technique strengthens the belief to be the doer and therefore is not a means to heal.
That the client sometimes feels better after the technique is the intelligence of life to maintain the illusory world as real by deceiving man that “I did such and such a technique to heal my emotions.“ In many cases the feelings come back and the person becomes dependend on the technique. In other cases the thought “The technique helped me“ arises in the client will recommend the technique to others.
In this way many “healers“ are provided with money to have food on the table and this is fine for Life determines it so. But Life also sometimes spontaneously gives man the insight that believes are illusory and reveals the true nature of Life which is freedom itself. This insight is given by the “inner Guru“ and not by any ego.
The teacher is an ego giving the illusory ego something to do. The Guru is not a man, it is the intelligence of Life itself, sometimes manifesting as an Enlightened Being sometimes appearing in a certain apparent individual spontaneously as a recognition of man‘s true nature.
The Guru helps man to pierce the illusion and makes him realize that he himself is Life and not a man. Man is an auditary illusion of light and sound reflected by Life as an expression of Life and yet not separate from Life. All is One. In oneness feelings and emotions are illusory and this has to be understood, not how to get rid of them. This is Guru.
Guru is Life. Teacher is mind. www.acadun.com
Marcus, did you discover for yourself that emotions are an illusion? Do you ever get irrationally mad, sad or something like that?
Michiel: "Marcus, did you discover for yourself that emotions are an illusion? Do you ever get irrationally mad, sad or something like that?"
Emotions are in the mind only and not in Life. The mind gets irrationally mad, sad or something like that from time to time. The mind is perceived as real by the ego, and therefore the ego suffers.
After the total understanding of the illusoriness of the mind has happened, Life reveals itself spontaneously, uncontrollably and unpredictably and the mind does not appear real any more to the witnesser, an evolved and sophisticated ego.
"Absolute understanding" makes all thoughts, feelings and emotions lose their illusory power to appear real, they come and go, but there is nobody present to claim them as "mine". Therefore, sooner or later, they come by lesser and lesser.
"I" did not discover that. The "I" continues to play out the illusory manifestations of light and sound only to be enjoyed by the witnesser.
In my illusory story there was a time, I was 16, when I was depressed by an immense fear of death for several weeks. I wanted to do something against it. I could not breathe in a normal way and sleeping was almost impossible because of the fear not to wake up again. I tried talking to everybody about death: teachers, parents, friends, grandfather, psychologist, priest...
It became very much clear that nothing could be done to get rid of the feeling. One evening I couldn't find to sleep and it happened that I listened to some kind of beautiful music laying in bed. Suddenly my mind stopped without any effort and an immensity of space, freedom and joy appeared. It did not last long, but the fear of death was somehow accepted after this "experience" and not fought against any more. So it became bearable.
But from time to time fear came back: fear in relationships of being lonely, fear at work of being not good enough, fear of death. However, somehow the urge of the ego to do something with feelings has become lesser. It simply happened, I did not do it.
At a certain point all the fear came up again in the middle of a group which I visited to learn to deal with relationships in a more compassionate manner. And it was a feeling of complete aloneness, because the whole group gave me the feedback that they did not trust my intentions not to hurt anyone. I was kind of very calm and maybe cold, because my aliveness was covered by a sense of imprisonment in the sense of "I". Therefore they did not believe my good intentions to be a "good man", perhaps because of fear, for I was not very happy and an unhappy person does not convey trust to others.
Suddenly in the middle of this aloneness I felt an urge to get out of the room to get out of that feeling and in the same moment the understanding came to me that running away was not possible for the world is not to be escaped. Later an understanding happened that the world is but in my mind and nobody could escape his mind wherever he goes. So the fear was with me for several days, but not as near as before, there was a kind of distance between "me" and the "feeling".
Some other time in the same group, it happened that an enormous sense of sadness took over my whole being. After it has disappeared a sense of whole love and peace was recognized, but more like a feeling, there was somebody there who felt that love. I thought this was a remarkable shift into a different kind of consciousness, and it was true in a way, because not many thoughts troubled me after this apparent shift - yet there were some worries about what to do in the future, how to do it an so on.
I thought that I had learned something which could be transmitted or taught in some way and searched for means to convey my "shift in consciousness" to others. The "I" was still present.
In the internet I came to watch a video with Dr. Vijai Shankar and it was remarkable to me how he explained that Life is a play of light and sound and that man is not the doer, speaker and thinker, because thoughts are not in Life to conduct it.
I met Dr. Shankar and he said in the talk that it has to be crystal-clear that man is not the doer and that the world, man and mind are illusory. And that you have to understand it deeply. It dawned on me that nothing was crystal-clear and there was still the sense of doership and being a separate individual.
After a period of time while listening to the talks of Dr. Shankar and reading all of his many books, the understanding of how the illusion in the mind gets reflected deepened and along with that trust in life set in. Trust in life is the understanding that life happens to man whether he likes it or not. Trust in life is to understand that everything happens in the mind and not in life. This understanding deepened and the ego disappeared as a reality, it became obvious that Aliveness is all there is.
Hey Marcus,
First of all, thanks for this sharing. It's nice to get to know each other.
If there is a true seeing that all emotions are an illusion, great! Then you obviously don't need EFT.
Let's get back to the original message, where I wrote "This process is just like taking a shower in the morning." I put this message on the 'duality' part of the forum on purpose: it's meant for practical life.
It's meant in a simple way: you're dirty, you take a shower. You have pain in your neck, you do EFT. (if you have difficulty turning your head EFT can also help)
Now EFT works for a lot of people, and not for others. If it causes a hope in someone, their wants will be fulfilled or not. It's the same for anything: a new car, computer, partner, etc. Your hopes are fulfilled or not. I don't believe that there is a crime in bringing something up that might be helpful for a lot of people. They can try EFT for free, and see whether or not it works for them.
From your story, Marcus, I can see you had some bad experiences with psychology, healing and seeking help in general. This has been your experience and it has formed your beliefs. Others have had other experiences and therefore other beliefs. What we are writing in these posts are basically just opposing beliefs.
I noticed you wrote about understanding in other posts, so why not try to understand this: what we write is conditioned words and conditioned beliefs.
Michiel: "From your story, Marcus, I can see you had some bad experiences with psychology, healing and seeking help in general. This has been your experience and it has formed your beliefs."
Response: These apparent experiences were the most valuable illusory events in my life, for they revealed the understanding of Life. So there is no "bad" experience.
Michiel: "what we write is conditioned words and conditioned beliefs."
Response: Wisdom is beyond the believes of the conditioned mind. It nevertheless gets expressed with words which are dual by nature.
Understanding words of wisdom could lead in two directions:
1) Knowledge (opinions, believes, doer, speaker, thinker, spiritual techniques are real)
2) Wisdom (opinions, believes, doer, speaker, thinker, spiritual techniques are illusory)
The mind is conditioned to perceive everything as a believe or opinion. Therefore the mind interprets wisdom as just believes. But sometimes an understanding happens which leads to wisdom and it becomes obvious that all opinions and believes are just illusory.
Which kind of understanding happens to the apparent individual is determined by the force of Life and not by the power of the mind. Understanding happens spontaneously, unpredictably and uncontrollably and leads either to knowledge or wisdom.
If a certain technique happens to an apparent individual, no force on earth can prevent it from happening. If a certain technique doesn't happen to an apparent individual, no force on earth can make it happen.
Nothing is a "crime" for man is not the doer! But it is false to believe that "you are dirty" or "you have pain". Dirt and pain are illusory and Life determines to share this understanding in dual language, even though the ego could feel insulted.
In my original post I wrote "Don't get stuck in non-dual concepts." That is very much linked to my writing "what we write is conditioned words and conditioned beliefs."
The words themselves are dead concepts; to this it's irrelevant whether or not they come from wisdom. Which is true for all words. Therefore, your words are no better or worse than a soap opera. So are mine. A soap opera has concepts, our posts have concepts. No difference. The only 'value' of words is practical
Michiel: "Therefore, your words are no better or worse than a soap opera."
Response: You might be right: For your mind, my words are just soap opera.
Hi Michiel
I was involved in EFT about 2 years ago, i have read the manual and i practiced it many times but without any results, indeed it had negative effects on me because of the hopes i had with it. And my hopes came up because of the great results they promised (just see the Gary Craig presentation of ETF).
The point is that it has no scientific bases, if you see it is only a few taps and saying "eventhough i....i love and accept myself". They say is based on acupuncture but without explanation. As i see it has no common sense..one can think is an invent to earn money with the dispair of people who didnt find solutions in others ways
I have to admit that i have my doubts because people i respect like Burt Harding (Satsang teacher) have EFT videos in his youtube channel. And Gary Craig, doctors and patients seems to be sincere people.
I would like to know your opinion about that