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Dr. Shankar: "Decisions"
Decisions
‘Decisions, decisions, decisions! What a burden it is to have make decisions in life!’ Such is the cry of almost every man and woman. And - ‘Why does life have to be so difficult?’
Why indeed?
‘How glorious it would be if life just happened!’
It would indeed.
‘Why can we not just watch – and enjoy, perhaps – life unfolding?’
Why not, indeed?
Every man believes right decisions have to be made by him or her in order to survive. On the other hand, every man also believes that wrong decisions should not be made, so as to avoid unwanted consequences.
Nevertheless, man makes both the right and the wrong decisions. Paradoxically, he finds his decision has been wrong only if his expectations are not met, and never before. He is, therefore, never certain if the decision made is right. It appears right until it turns out not to be.
The point is - when did man begin to decide? Irrespective of when he began to decide, it appears that he has not learnt how to make the right decision every time he makes them, no matter how knowledgeable he or she is.
Man has many beliefs within his mind. He did not decide to have them, did he? Having had them, he cannot decide what to have or what not to have, can he? He should be able to if he can decide what to do and what not to do.
Did the first man on earth decide to be born? Even in the present day, does any man or woman decide to be born? No, he or she does not decide to be born. They come to know that they are born only after they are born - without any decision.
So too with death: man can decide to die, but he can never determine the exact moment of his death or birth. Birth happens, and so too death, in a moment that has no time within it or decision. The entire cosmos happened spontaneously, and so too man, and his decisions happen spontaneously, whether he likes it or not.
Does man have to decide to breathe so that he may live? Does he have to decide to see and hear so that he may see and hear? Does he have to decide to smell, taste and touch so that he may smell, taste and touch? He does not, for these things happen to man if they are meant to happen, whether he decides or not.
Likewise, life will happen to man whether he decides or not. It will happen in only one way and not the way he decides. Decisions are a delay in life and not an actuality.
However, man cannot decide in the moment in which he or she lives, for he has not made the moment and neither can he decide in a moment for, in a moment, time nor thought exist. If he could make the moment, he would not make the moment he will die, would he?
The moment was already present before the first man came to live in it. To decide, time is required, and time does not exist in a moment, while life happens within it spontaneously.
Decisions that are meant to happen will happen and no force on earth can stop them from happening. Decisions that are not meant to happen will not happen, and no force on earth can make them happen.
Considerable frustration and criticism may well be experienced when there seems to be indecision. They do happen and man is unable to decide not to experience them. If he or she could decide, this would be an important decision to make. Frustration and criticism, like decision, are illusory for they all are felt in the mind and not in life.
Life does not depend upon man’s decisions for a direction. If life did depend upon that, it would be confused, for there are as many decisions as there are minds. There would be utter chaos every other moment if life were to listen to man’s decisions.
Life would never flow, for life would have to wait for a decision to be made by man, since every man would expect and want his decision to be followed by life. Man would argue over decisions and life would have to wait for man to decide. In that case, life would not happen until a decision was made and, if life were not to happen, man and life would end.
Life does not wait for man’s decisions; it unfolds eternally, spontaneously, uncontrollably and unpredictably. Decisions happen in time in the mind and not in life. Life flows like a river and a river does not decide whether to flow or not.
Life is a singular flow of optical and auditory illusions of light and sound, and the flow of life does not depend on man’s decisions.
Author: Dr. Vijai S. Shankar © Copyright V.S. Shankar 2011
Beautiful Anna!:
"Take for instance the decision to go to the left instead of to the right. The thought arises from nowhere so the decision was there before the mind was conscious of it. And when consciousness of the thought has arisen, we believe we made a decision." –Anna
btw, you might like "Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain" by David Eagleman
Thank you for the comment to my post Michael and I am also very grateful for your tip!
I checked out David Eagelman and I was really impressed. I find this stuff so awfully interesting, actually nothing interests me more than that right now.
I felt so inspired so I watched the video with Mike Conners on this site again, since he is also very stright on this topic and I liked his talk at TAT Foundation very much. He also mentioned some sholars who are dealing with this subject, like Anthony Cashmore et.al. and he said that this is like dropping a bomb.
In fact these have been also my own reflections for quite a while, for example that we are lived by the subconscious and all the huge consequenses this stuff would bring into our world, much bigger than all the revolutions we had in History.
It`s funny, but on such occasions the words of Dr Shankar are coming into my mind: "Man is yet to understand..." :)
So I am now so happy for your tip on David Eagelman and will certainly get his bok Incognito.In the meanwhile I can also watch him on You Tube.
Thanks again and be well!
Anna
Btw: I like your web site very much!
E.c. should be David Eagleman.
Anna
Quote: "Life is a singular flow of optical and auditory illusions of light and sound, and the flow of life does not depend on man’s decisions."
Seems a lot like that cyclical merry-go-round in the light/sound show of the carnival of the the Tao. We think we're steering IT, but IT is steering us.
And we even think we can get off that merry-go-round and then exclaim proudly: "Hey! All you suckers on the merry-go-round, look at me, I'm free-e-e-e-e! It's so simple and obvious, you just have to get off!"
What we may not realize is that we just jumped off that merry-go-round, only to land on another invisible merry-go-round, where we spin around merrily believing that we are free of all merry-go-rounds. How many merry-go-rounds are there? I suspect that it's merry-go-rounds all the way. We just keep hopping from one to the next. They never end (although of course it's all one big ever-expanding merry-go-round. It's what the Tao is; there is no getting off or on). This is called progress.
So one might as well get used to it, enjoy the ride and become merry-go-round friendly. We don't need to make decisions, but we like to, nonetheless. But on the path (i.e. merry-go-round) of the Tao, no decisions are needed. This is called going with the flow ... going with the heart.
Don't worry, the Tao knows what it is doing, or not doing, as the case may be.
The mind is a merry-go- round. The heart is a thought too in the merry-go-round. Life flows and you are in the flow and not separate from it to be able to go with it.
A merry-go-round, within a merry-go-round, within a merry-go-round, ad infinitum...
it matters not. They're all just concepts. Anything we can even begin to discuss in the world of dualities is a concept. These words themselves are concepts. What 'you' think 'I' am thinking, and vice versa, are concepts. 'Life flowing,' and the 'Tao,' are concepts. 'Real' and 'Illusory' are concepts. And no concept can be inherently more or less valid than any other (except insofar as one takes sides in the world of beliefs and dualities). In as much as they exist at all, they are exactly equal in value or worthlessness.
But where do these concepts exist? In the mind? Where does mind exist? In the flow of life? Where does the flow of life exist? In that boundless timeless emptiness where no discrimination or separation ever happens? Where does that exist?
Concepts, within concepts, within concepts, ad infinitum.
Can't conceive with them, can't conceive without them. What to do? Nothing one can do.
So just relax and enjoy the flow of the never-ending whatever IT is.. fill in the blank.
Concept or not, 'who' actually cares?
Get high on life, not concepts.
Make love, not concepts.
Understanding of mind as illusory is not a concept. Yet the mind interprets understanding as concepts, which is natural. If understanding happens it happens, if not not, and if it happens it has no reason for in life there is neither cause nor effect, these are just thoughts in the mind.
As well as understanding could not brought about by the mind, "relaxation", "enjoyment of the flow" "filling in the blank", "love" or anything else could not be done.
Ok, so such an 'Understanding' can not or does not discriminate between the mind's concepts as being inherently valid, or invalid, as the case may be, but equally true/not-true, real/not-real, etc -- but only the mind believes otherwise in its world of dualities. In other words, only the mind discriminates.
Would this be an 'Understanding' which exists prior to, and transcending all thoughts and concepts, even before consciousness? Is that 'Understanding' like the inherent 'Knowing' of the One/True 'Self' that can never be known by the dualistic mind?
Closer yet?
Thank you for your patience btw :]
Understanding is light and sound, which is reflected from silence or pure light.
Very poetic, but ...
Oh well, back to going with the flow of the Tao.
Once the Self realizes itself, this all seems like mindless entertainment after that.
(I) couldn't really care less, one way or the other what IT is. I'm too high on life to care
Thanks anyway.
The mind first asks (#6) and then says it doesn't care (#8). This the game of the mind, and nothing could be done about it for mind is sound in life and not an actuality to be controlled.
more "mindless" entertainment, (i.e. game)
To believe in what the mind says as real is knowledge, to understand it as illusory and to show why - as in Dr. Shankar's article "decisions" - is wisdom and not a "mindless game". It is very much worth to be read - if it happens! - and to be understood that man is not the doer, speaker or thinker, because actions, speech and thoughts are illusory and not real.
Read it already ... and for whatever its 'worth,' it was indeed worth the read. Although 'worth' implies 'unworthiness' ... yet more dualistic discriminatory concepts of the ego/body-mind. Not that there is anything inherently 'wrong' with that.
In response, please reference "Enlightenment ... Does it matter" in the 'Duality' forum. Also may be 'worth' the read, if you haven't already.
Again, your insights are much appreciated.
cheers
Enlightenment is nothing which happens to a person for persons are illusory. Life is enlightened, and the mind is an illusory reflection of it.
Duality needs to be understood and not tried to escaped from. Duality does not exist in life but only appears to exist in the mind. And as the mind is sound and not an actuality, duality does not even exist in the mind.
To say that nothing needs to be understood and it doesn't matter is not an understanding. As long as a single thought in daily life appears real, man is in misery, albeit illusory.
Do you understand that you don't decide what happens to be written on the forum? Do you understand that life, including the mind, just happens - not as a sum of events but as a singular flow?
Yes, I believe I understand what you're saying, and it does resonate with the 'wisdom' of the heart.
My point is simply this: whether one is categorized as 'enlightened' or 'un-enlightened' doesn't matter on iota.
Whatever dualistic category you may 'believe' them to be in, ALL beings are embodiments of divine grace, no more, nor less than you or I. And as such, that is sufficient onto itself. All they 'need' are the necessities of a healthy life, and the 'wisdom' of the heart -- one's direct line to that divine ineffable 'wisdom' -- which I believe you are pointing to. No one needs to give them or teach them that 'wisdom.' ... it is given by that same grace, and inherent to all of us.
In other words, there is nothing 'wrong' with them, and nothing that needs to be done for them to grow, spiritually or otherwise ... not that one 'does' anything -- as you have said -- and which is actually the point I'm trying to make about teaching 'wisdom.' At best, it is offering support, empathy, acceptance, encouragement and unconditional love. At worse, it is missionaries on a crusade, and all hell breaks loose.
And so love the world in all of its diverse manifestations, whether 'real' or 'illusory', 'enlightened' or 'un-enlightened,' it is all worthy and equally valid.
On this we might agree.
Growing, as a man or a tree or an animal, is part of the evolution of life. What is done for anybody or not, illusory it may be, is life's decision and not the mind's, let alone a person's!
For the mind there are things which are real and others which are illusory - this is its dualistic nature. But there are not real experiences on one hand and illusory experiences on the other hand. Only the illusory could be perceived and never the real.
And perhaps enough said. You are a man of few words, which is probaly a 'good' thing ;-)
thanks again
The number of a man's words is precise for life is always precise. Therefore "few" or "many" is illusory and not real.
Or one could say that 'few' or 'many' are irrelevant and not important.
Either way, Life is always precise.
And Life in its infinite divine diversity and creativity appears to have no limits at all.
Is that 'true' freedom?
I know, I know ... 'freedom' is another concept of mind.
Maybe 'true' freedom' is freedom from 'illusory' freedom.
?????
Illusory does not mean "irrelevant and not important", and "few" or "many" does make a difference, illusory though it is. The illusory is all there is to be enjoyed, if it happens.
Ok, now I'm waiting for Life to stop this merry-go-round ... I want to get off now!
The mind is getting dizzy from all this illusory 'Disneyworld' enjoyment.
Life is giving itself a headache.
Do have any 'real' Tylenol?
The mind's merry-go-round will never stop as long as man is alive, therefore it is to be enjoyed and not to be stopped if at all it would be possible.
OK Marcus, now you are plagiarizing my original post #2
But it bears repeating nonetheless ;-)
It is not about whether a decision is needed or not to flow with life or not.
You are not separate from life. Life is a flow including all decisions.
That is splitting 'semantic' hairs ... Life = Tao
"It is not about whether a decision is needed or not to flow with the 'Tao' or not.
We are not separate from the Tao. Tao is a flow including all decisions."
My intended meaning, more or less, in post #2. But much more concise.
I am beginning to think we may just be struggling with our relative interpretations of Life/Tao's choice of words.
Understanding, not being knowledge, has nothing to do with interpretation and is never a struggle, for all interpretations are pointed out to be relative, yet it appears as struggle to the ego.
"Tao, not being knowledge, has nothing to do with interpretation and is never a struggle, for all interpretations are pointed out to be relative, yet it appears as struggle to the ego."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/taote.htm
Written about 2500 years ago ... nothing new under the sun.
What is time?
What is new?
What is a place called "under the sun"?
What is "writing"?
Life is timeless.
Life is placeless.
Life is thoughtless.
Actions, speech and thoughts are illusory and not real.
What could be a "sacred text" then?
Tao is timeless.
Tao is placeless.
Tao is thoughtless.
Actions, speech and thoughts are illusory and not real.
As for the "sacred text" Like Dr. Shankars text, it is very much worth to be read - if it happens!
Quotes are of the mind, understanding is life, if it happens.
Echo
ECHO
Repetition happens as an invitation to understanding, into life.
Such is Life ... no end to understanding.
Thanks for the invitation!
Is it BYOB?
When the mind is understood to be illusory, the preciousness of life which is the eternal moment reveals itself.
What does the abbreviation BYOB stand for?
In the earthly realm, it means "Bring you own bottle" i.e. Beer, wine, etc
In the realm of Spirit: "Bring your own body?"
Thanks for explanation.
As well as a bottle, a body is a thought in the mind, and neither do you bring about.
And thanks for the clarification ... indeed, "neither do I bring about."
What I love about such discussions, as illusory as the words may be, is that it clarifies the 'understanding' when it is reflected, or echoed, back to me.
I tend to joke about it, but you may have no idea how much it is appreciated.
Namaste
Knowledge gets clarified as being illusory rather than real. Understanding deepens as it is grace.
Thank you marcus for this new text by Dr.Shankar about decisions and choices!
As usually I have a lot of fun reading his texts and listening to him, besides the deep appreciation of his teaching.
His sober style calling a spade a spade is so humoristicaly unspiritual and yet so deeply spiritual, and this text makes no exception.
The scientific validity of the teaching is clear as soon as the mind is observed inductively, by introspection, the mind being both the observer and the observed.
Take for instance the decision to go to the left instead of to the right. The thought arises from nowhere so the decision was there before the mind was conscious of it.
And when consciousness of the thought has arisen, we believe we made a decision.
Sometimes there are more options: left/right-move/not move heaped up in the mind.Seemingly without any reason one prevails over the others and the body moves or not.And when it moved or not we believe we made that choice.
No, indeed Life doesn`t wait for me to make up my mind, It works much much faster.